S1.Ep22: Coach the Experts: Chris Harder

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Do you find yourself violating the boundaries you’ve set in your life? Have you set a standard that you no longer want to keep? What are some of the fears that have you acting out of alignment with your values? And how could it be the best thing for the people you care for to set and uphold your boundaries?

On this week’s Coach the Experts episode, I’m speaking to entrepreneur, philanthropist, and business strategist, Chris Harder. Chris runs an extremely successful mastermind that requires a sizeable investment, and he’s on the show today to get some coaching on the way he’s violated his own boundaries and his desire to uphold them once again.

Join us on this episode as Chris shares the fears that are driving the violation of his boundaries, and how he’s created a standard that he no longer wants to keep. You’ll hear me coach him through his fears, and the shift he’s landed on that supports the sustainability of his time, his program, and his people. 

If you want to call in to The Life Coach Hotline, go to lindseymango coaching.com/lifecoachhotline.

What You'll Learn on this Episode

  • Why you can’t execute your best ideas alone.
  • How people pleasing is driving the actions Chris takes.
  • Why Chris is violating the boundaries he’s set in his life and business.
  • The shift he made in his mindset around having and upholding his boundaries.

Featured on the Show


Click to Read Episode Transcript

Lindsey: Hi, welcome to The Life Coach Hotline. This is Lindsey Mango, your life coach. How can I help you?

Hi guys, welcome to the Coach the Experts podcast series featured on The Life Coach Hotline podcast. I want you to imagine that you get to be a fly on the wall for the coaches, the mentors, the leaders that you admire, to hear what their mind offers. The drama they have, the limits they have, the things that they need coaching on, that’s what this series is all about.

I would say maybe a little over a year ago, I can’t remember exactly, but I put a podcast episode out on my former podcast where my husband coached me. And I will say that was one of the most profound episodes and one of the episodes that got the most feedback, the most downloads, the most so many things from people.

And I spent a lot of time thinking about why and here’s what I realized. So often we put the people we admire on a pedestal. We don’t think that they have the same fears, the same limitations, the same thoughts, the same drama that we have.

And when we do that, when we put them on this pedestal, what we do is we make ourselves wrong for the fear, for the drama, for the discomfort, for the limitations we put on ourselves. And we expect that those things have to be eliminated completely and almost like we have to have the perfect mindset and the perfect approach in order to create the success and the life that we want.

By so many people listening to the episode where I’m being coached and by you listening to this series where I’m also going to have one where I’m being coached on who knows what, I haven’t even decided yet, you are going to realize that the people you admire and the results that they have and the success they have created have the exact same minds you do.

And you’re going to hear how they shift through some of their biggest blocks, some of their most vulnerable things live, to where you can see that even though you have some of the exact same thought processes as they have, that you can shift yourself. You can have a breakthrough and you can still create successful results alongside having all of the very human fears, doubts and discomforts that all of us have.

No one is unique. The reason why people have success and the people you admire have created the results that they have isn’t because they don’t have the same fear, drama and doubt that you have. It’s just what they choose to do with it that matters. And that’s what this series is going to offer you.

So buckle up, you are getting, I feel like, something that no one ever shares, which is the inner workings of the mentors and leaders that you follow, and what a coaching call for them looks like. And it’s going to offer you breakthroughs. It’s going to offer you the possibility of the success and the life that they have because you’re just like them.

And it is going to give you an opportunity to take what they learn and have transformation in real-time. It doesn’t matter what we’re specifically talking about, you can apply it to anything in your life, and it is going to change you. It changed me just by coaching these experts.

So without further ado, if I haven’t hyped it up enough, welcome to the series. I’m going to be coaching an expert, a leader, a mentor, a coach that you probably know. And if you don’t, you need to go follow them. And you’re going to hear tears of vulnerability, breakthroughs in real-time and you are going to walk away changed forever. So let’s dive in, welcome to the series.

Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Coach the Experts series on The Life Coach Hotline. A special series I’m doing where I coach people that I admire and people that I know are admired out in the world. And I’m super excited to introduce and welcome someone that I have followed from afar and close up and I’m just always in awe of what he does and how she shows up in the world and I’m super excited to coach him today.

And so I just want to welcome Chris Harder to the show.

Chris: Lindsey, first of all, thanks for having me on. Listeners should know we’ve been friends for years. I just think the absolute world of you guys. I think the way you guys do life is so dope. And anyone that tunes into your guys for advice, they’re tuning into two really smart individuals.

Lindsey: Thank you, Chris, I really appreciate that. We were in your mastermind and it was life changing. I mean we had just –

Chris: Was that year number one or year number two?

Lindsey: I mean, I think it was year number two.

Chris: It was a long time ago. Isn’t that crazy?

Lindsey: It feels like it was yesterday. I remember being in that first room with everybody, and then at the same time it feels like it was 10 years ago even though it wasn’t.

Chris: It’s wild, we’re going into our eighth year now. So I mean that means it was six, seven years ago, which is crazy.

Lindsey: That’s insane. Oh my gosh, so good. Well if you want, I’m pretty sure everyone listening will know who you are, but if you want to introduce yourself really quick, I’m sure they would love to hear that. And what you’re up to right now.

Chris: For sure. So, a lot of people know me as the other half of Lori Harder, because everybody knows Lori. But I kind of say that in jest, I’m a philanthropist, entrepreneur, and podcaster. I’m the host of the Chris Harder show where we talk about the common thread of generosity and people’s success stories and money journeys.

And currently the thing I’m most excited about is I’m building a brand new app. It is a peer to peer personal loan app. So literally somebody like you, Lindsey, will go on and lend to an absolute stranger. So it’s a two-sided marketplace.

Lindsey: So cool.

Chris: And then the full aim of this app is to keep people out of payday loan stores and some of the other more predatory situations that people end up in when they’re in a tight jam. And that whole app was born out of a real-life story of generosity, which is kind of a cool story.

So anyhow, that’s kind of me in a nutshell right now. And it feels like organized chaos, if you will.

Lindsey: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I bet. I mean it’s something new that you’ve never done before, right?

Chris: Never. And I had to go out – And talk about know thyself, I knew that tech is not my thing. I never wanted an app. I never had aspirations to be in tech and I knew it was not my strength. So when I had the idea, when that real-life act of generosity happened that led to this idea, I had to go out and find somebody that I knew would be able to handle the parts that I simply would never be good at.

And I went out and had a longtime friend, his name was Matt. I met him in a mastermind years ago, ironically, at a dinner. And we became good friends and he had just sold his tech company for a massive win, got to retain his team. I went to Matt and I said, “Hey buddy, here’s the vision, it’s a really important mission. I can’t bring it to market without you and your team. Are you in?”

And the punch line was after some hemming and hawing and pushing and shoving and begging they were in and we’ve been off to the races ever since. So it would not be the rocket ship that it is quickly becoming without Matt being the other half and without that really awesome team that he brought along with him.

Lindsey: So cool. I have to say that is like, I feel like, one of your greatest strengths is like the book, Who Not How, I feel like you’re really good at that.

Chris: One, thank you for that. Two, that’s a clue for everybody. Nobody expects you to be good at everything. No one expects you to be able to do it yourself. And I think people either try and do it themselves because they’re afraid to share the idea, maybe from a place of scarcity, or they have to do it themselves because they literally don’t know who else to turn to. They haven’t grown their network actively.

Lindsey: Yes.

Chris: And that’s why people get stuck. You literally can’t do your best ideas by yourself, period, hands down. You need a coach, like yourself. You need business partners. You need investors. You need outside advice looking in on your business because you’re stuck in it. You need an entire tribe of people if you’re going to bring any real good idea to any real scalable size.

Lindsey: Oh, that’s so good. I’m going to jot down a little note. Thanks for the reminder. Okay, so good. Well, I’m excited. So, I mean, I told you before we got on, this podcast is about coaching you live. So I would love to hear what you want coaching on? What’s the most prevalent thing in your world right now that you either feel stuck around or feel like there’s an opportunity to shift or grow in?

Chris: My goodness. The first thing that comes up for me – I’ll give you a whole list and I’ll let you pick one.

Lindsey: Okay.

Chris: It’s boundaries. I have this tendency to over-serve and then get resentful that I’m over-serving. And I would love to not do that anymore.

Lindsey: Okay.

Chris: Then that kind of defeats the purpose of over-serving, is if you’re doing it with resentment, right?

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: And it causes problems in other areas of life. That’s one. Another one is I can’t imagine growing old without kids, but the sound of having kids and how disruptive it is right now sounds like an absolute nightmare.

Another one would be I don’t like when I have a short temper. I kind of snap at people or answer Lori in a way that I should have answered her nicer when she asked me something while I’m working or something like that.

And then the last one is I don’t ask for help. Like it’s crazy, I’ve got all this reciprocity, all this relationship capital built up, but I just feel like I’m bugging people if I ask them for help. And so it really stops me. Maybe I ask 1 out of 10 times when I should be asking 9 out of 10 times.

So I mean, there’s the smorgasbord of stuff in my head all the time.

Lindsey: I love it. Welcome to the club. We’ve all got it. That’s part of why I’m doing this. I’m like, it’s nice to hear that Chris Harder also has a lot of the same thoughts that I have.

Chris: By the way, like every one of my peers, every one of my friends, we all have four or five really effed up things that we’re constantly navigating through.

Lindsey: Yeah, so good. Okay, so here’s my question, what is the one thing on this list that you want to talk about the least?

Chris: Oh, the least.

Lindsey: Like usually I just coach on one thing, so I might have to have you back on, but we’ll see what we get to. But what’s the one thing that you feel –

Chris: Yeah, I’d be down for that. I think the least exciting thing to talk about would be like why do I answer in a temperamental way or why am I short tempered with people I care about? That’s probably the least exciting.

Lindsey: Okay.

Chris: The most exciting or what would be most beneficial is I think I would love to figure out how do I uphold boundaries and get rid of this people pleasing gene.

Lindsey: Okay, let’s talk about that one.

Chris: Okay.

Lindsey: Okay, so tell me more about that. When you find yourself not honoring boundaries or over-serving or people pleasing, like you said, give me an example of where this happens.

Chris: Absolutely, I’ve got a million of them. Let’s use the mastermind. I run a mastermind where it is 50 to $75,000 to be in per year. And I feel like when people make that sizable investment, then I should be really available to them at all times, even though I disclose up front that this is a mastermind where I have certain office hours where I’m available.

But then I start to violate those office hours by responding first thing in the morning when I am supposed to be in my protected time. Or responding at night or, yeah, I know we already did your call this month but let’s just book another call so I can help you work through this thing.

And I’m always caught in this trap of violating what the actual program is because I’m so afraid that one day someone is going to say, oh, I was in that and it was okay, but it wasn’t what I was expecting, or I didn’t get my money’s worth.

So I’m constantly violating my own boundaries, which causes problems everywhere else, because I’m so afraid of somebody saying it wasn’t what they expected.

Lindsey: Okay. So good and what great awareness. What if they do say that? What does that mean?

Chris: I don’t want to be seen as skeezy or that douchy scam artist like so many people are, or someone that took their money and didn’t deliver.

I guess both Lori and I have this drive to make sure everybody got what they wanted and then some. And I can’t tell you why or I can’t tell you where that came from. I can just tell you it’s one of the things that we find ourselves doing and talking about quite a bit, is that we’re just so afraid that somebody one day would say, oh, that sucked or they’re not the real deal or something like that.

Lindsey: Mm-hmm. When you are afraid, I mean it makes so much sense, right? I mean part of survival is fear and right now you’re trying to do all these things and go over your boundaries to protect yourself from that fear. So I mean it’s human, it’s natural. But I think the biggest question is what happens when you’re allowing that fear to drive your actions to show up and people please and do all of that? What does that look like?

Chris: What does the action look like when I’m people –

Lindsey: Yeah, when you are allowing that fear to kind of drive your behavior.

Chris: Here’s what it looks like in my head. Well, I can fit him or her in right here, even though I don’t want to because this time is supposed to be for something else. But I might as well do it just to make sure they’re getting what they need. So it’s always sacrificing and something else suffers as a consequence.

You know where else I do this too? It’s not just with paid clients, it’s also with acquaintances. I make myself available to go to a dinner, to go to a lunch, to go grab coffee when I’m in a town and someone reaches out like, “Hey, I was in your thing once a while back. Could we ever grab a coffee?”

Or how do I describe it this way? Picture a bullseye, you’ve got a bullseye which is like your really close friends and family, your core. Then you’ve got that next ring and that’s your good friends. Then you’ve got the next ring and those are like friendly acquaintances. Then you’ve got the next ring that’s like everybody else that you’ve interacted with, you don’t like them but there’s no real anything there.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: I find myself in those last two rings saying yes to dinners, yes to lunches, yes to things because I’m afraid that they might say, oh, he was too good to meet with me or he was too snobby or, I don’t know, it’s hard to put in words. But it’s a feeling of, ugh, I better do this or they’re going to think negative about me.

Lindsey: Okay, so I mean it makes a lot of sense. I feel like it’s very clear based on what you’re saying. So let’s just keep teasing that out. So you keep doing that, I’m curious has the fear gone away of like, oh no, if I don’t show up for them then they’re going to think I’m –

Chris: You know, the fear is actually transitioning into a – Am I allowed to swear on your show?

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: It’s transitioning into a, “You know what? I don’t give a fuck. I’m just going to start saying no regardless of what happens.” In other words it’s become so frustrating giving up my time and energy in ways that don’t match the season I’m in right now that the pain of that is starting to get bigger than the pain of what if somebody says that I didn’t make time for them or I wasn’t a good friend or I was too good for them or something like that down the road. Does that make sense?

Lindsey: Yep. So what’s happening is you’re kind of pushing off in the total opposite direction, right? Like the pendulum is swinging. The fear is still there, it’s just now you’re just swinging the other direction where you’re like, I’m not doing anything. I’m going to say no to all of it, kind of vibe.

Chris: Yep, 100%. Like a knee jerk reaction. Throwing the baby out with the bath water, just saying fuck it all.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: Like I’m going to have enormous walls up this year kind of a thing. And that’s probably not a good thing either, but it feels like a knee jerk reaction, you know?

Lindsey: Yeah, how could you not, right? After so long of doing this it would be pretty exhausting.

Chris: And you just said something really key right there too. I’ve always been available. I’ve always been extra friendly. I’ve always been extra attentive. I’ve always done this, so now I feel like I’ve set this standard that I no longer want to keep. And my fear is the only reason people expect it is because I’ve set that standard. And it was not meant to be an expectation to begin with, but now I look like a real asshole taking it away.

Lindsey: That’s really good awareness. How does it feel to see that?

Chris: Almost like you just have to tear the Band-Aid off and say fuck it, you’ve made your bed and now you’ve got to lay in it and this is the only way to fix it.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: Like you’re starting fresh, right?

Lindsey: Yeah, you’re re-teaching people how –

Chris: Yeah, and people may not like it but that’s okay, they can decide if they want to stick around in the future or not. There’s enough to go around even if the group of individuals I interact with in life changes.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: But I also don’t like being so flippant about people like that either because people are people, I care about them.

Lindsey: I think at the end of the day what’s key here is about where you’re coming from, the intention driving the behavior, right? Right now it’s fear, and in a way trying to be like, fuck it, is also a little bit of fear because you don’t trust yourself to set the boundaries. So you’re like, let’s just throw it all out because I don’t think I’m going to do it anyway.

And I’m just curious, if you were to think about coming from love or abundance, like love for yourself, love for the people, how would your behavior change?

Chris: I would realize that you’ve got to fill your own cup first in order to be the best version to have enough to pour out for other people. So if you’re giving from an empty or dry or resentful cup, then they’re not getting what they should get anyways, quite honestly.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: You also said something that was just interesting as well. You said come from a place of abundance. It quickly made me connect – I’ll give you a real specific example. We had a 75% renewal in the mastermind this year. We’ve never had that before.

Lindsey: Wow.

Chris: And in my mind I’m over-serving. Like, yeah, I know this is an extra half hour call here. Yeah, I know this is an extra trip up to go speak at your event. Yeah, I know it’s this. Yeah, I know it’s that. I’m over-serving and making the time and energy investments so that I don’t have to spend time and energy finding new members each year.

But when I say that out loud, am I accomplishing that? Yes. But am I really saving any time or energy? No, because I’m nickel and diming it away throughout the year out of a place of the fear of what if I have to go find more people?

Lindsey: Interesting.

Chris: Not the fear of them not being out there, the fear of I don’t want to –

Lindsey: Just like having to do the work. You’ve got other focuses right now. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But here’s what’s so like huge awareness and what’s so fascinating about this, is when you do this, what you do, it’s kind of like a relationship, right? I mean it is, but like if you act and show up a certain way, it’s kind of what we said earlier, what you do is you literally create that expectation.

And that’s what’s, like you’re kind of creating a beast that you have to keep feeding rather than showing up the way that you want and trusting the people who don’t take personal responsibility for their results will leave. And then you’ll be left with a room full of people and attract more people who take personal responsibility and show up and get what they came for no matter what. And then you just show up because you want to and now that room is so much more soul-filling and it’s so much easier.

Chris: Yeah, because any room where everybody is authentically being themselves is going to be a better, more connected room, right?

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: And I’m also setting an example for other people of, well, if he’s going above and beyond all the time, then I have to go above and beyond all the time. And I’m probably creating a shitty chain reaction of a whole bunch of people over-doing it and then doing it from a resentful place.

Lindsey: Yes. What are your thoughts?

Chris: Nothing other than these are things that you already know, you realize, as you talk through them out loud. But it becomes a moment of deciding, like okay, so now that you’re aware, are you willing to make those changes and uphold those changes going forward or not?

And if so, what does it look like? Is it a big announcement? Or is it just changing your behavior and letting people see a change in your behavior? I’d be curious to know what you think.

Lindsey: My thing would be that clarity will come when you really do decide. I think typically an announcement comes from that fear. I mean, that’s just my opinion, but you’re like, oh, I’ve got to let them know. Rather than you’ve already set the expectations.

Chris: Yeah.

Lindsey: So there’s that piece of it. But I think that clarity will come by truly deciding.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And as we’re sitting here talking through this, it’s actually quite certain in me that this is going to be a year of really strong boundaries. And I don’t think it has to feel like, hey everybody, I know in the past I’ve done X, Y and Z. Don’t expect it this year. If anything, that might make it feel not so good.

Lindsey: Yes, like a bigger deal than it actually is.

Chris: Like a bigger deal than it is. Instead of just upholding boundaries and maybe one person, maybe two people will be like, hey, you used to do this, what changed? And then I can address it as a one off, not as this blanket statement where it might not have been relevant to 90% of the people.

Lindsey: Yeah. Okay, I have a question that I think would be really helpful here. How could you doing this actually be the best thing ever for the people in that room and even for your friends? Or like the people that aren’t even friends, but are acquaintances that you show up for still? How could you saying no actually be the most powerful thing for them?

Chris: Let’s go back to that bullseye example that I used. For my core, for the actual bullseye, I’ll have more energy and be happier with them. And remember, I told you in the beginning of the show a lot of times if I’m working or busy or in the zone, I’ll snap at Lori when she pops her head in and asks a question. I’ll probably not do that as much as a result, right?

So the people in the bullseye in my life, they get a better version of me. And then the people in that second ring, close friends, there’s more time or more energy for them because I’m not spending on someone who’s just a client, right?

And the people in that third ring, that’s probably clients, friendly acquaintances, they’ll get more in two ways. One, they’ll get a better example to follow in case they’re missing life. Again, I’m probably setting a bad precedent that they now feel like they have to do this. So they’ll get a better example to follow. And two, everybody operates better with clarity.

Everybody operates better with boundaries. Everyone operates better when they know here’s the line or here’s the rules instead of it being a very blurred vision of what can I do, what can’t I do, what can I ask for, what can’t I ask for? Because that makes everybody feel awkward.

Lindsey: Yeah. Okay, how does that feel?

Chris: Good. Actually, really good. Like that’s a better outcome than doing the little extra here and the little extra there and a little extra here and a little extra there. It’s a better feeling. So whatever good feeling I’m trying to give them by doing that, it’s probably an equally good feeling or better to have them see a better example to look up to, number one. And number two, to understand where are these hard lines, where are these boundaries so that it takes away the awkwardness of, wait, why didn’t I hear back from him this morning? Wait, why didn’t I, you know what I mean?

Lindsey: Yeah. So good. I learn so much more from my mentors, leaders, people I follow based on who they are and not what they do. And I think that’s really what you would be doing here.

Chris: Oh yeah, for sure. And I guess who we are is what we do, right? Not what we say, but what we do is who we are.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Chris: So if I want to be one type of person, then of course I’ve got to clean up those actions to be that person.

Lindsey: Yeah. One other thing I would want to offer that I think would be really useful is part of the reason you are so successful is because of the level of responsibility you take over yourself in everything you do, right?

Chris: Like 100%.

Lindsey: Yes. And I would say, this is one of the biggest things I teach my clients is, and I would say for every person that I know that has created success is they have that level of responsibility. And so what you’re doing by having these boundaries and requiring them to show up at a different level is you are pushing them to take 100% responsibility rather than going, wait, I’ve got 50% and Chris has 50%.

It just feeds the same story that they need other people to do things for them in order to create what they want. Rather than like I have a thought about myself, any room I step into I get 10X the value out of, no matter what room it is. I never put the burden of that on the person who’s running the room. I always put the burden of that on myself, which is why I always create that result.

Chris: That’s all I want then, is a room full of Lindsey Mangos, because then my fear is opposite of that, right? My fear is always, okay, what do I have to do to make sure each person gets what they need? Instead of putting the onus on them of saying if I know I create the right container, they have to go do what it takes for them to get what they need out of that container.

Lindsey: Yes. And it starts with you deciding and being that person and not allowing anyone in your room who you can’t imagine being that way and continuing to uphold those boundaries, the room is only going to get better and better.

And then I think there’s also an element, at least for me, in any of my programs that’s actually a concept I always teach at the very beginning. Or maybe it’s a video, I don’t know exactly how you’re running it at this point, but where it’s like the biggest lesson you can learn is how to walk in any room and get what you came for.

And putting and teaching them that skill so that they can take that and learn how to use that, because that’s going to carry them through the rest of their life and their success.

Chris: Yeah. So reinforcing how they can get what they need out of that room instead of putting the onus on me to make sure they get it.

Lindsey: Yes.

Chris: I like that. I like that.

Lindsey: How does all that feel? Does it feel like a decision?

Chris: Well, it certainly feels like a decision, for sure. Like I was just sitting here like, oh, this is perfect timing because we haven’t kicked off this year’s mastermind yet, so the timing of it is perfect. I can reinforce these boundaries and then my behaviors can reinforce what I actually say are the boundaries. So it’s not even an awkward transition.

Yeah, 75% of the room is used to one way of me showing up last year and 25% don’t know what to expect yet. Although I’ve already seen myself violating a couple of boundaries with even the new people, right? Like, oh, I know the mastermind hasn’t started yet, I already paid, could I just get a quick call to answer these questions? Like I’m already violating those boundaries.

So I’m already setting that precedent with the new people as well. So if anything, this is really good timing before we formally kick this thing off to clean that shit up.

Lindsey: Yes.

Chris: I’m really stuck on, in a good way, what you said by me blurring all these lines, they’re not forced to show up and take the responsibility to get out of the container what they need to get out of the container. I’m kind of doing the work for them.

Lindsey: Yeah, they’re going, oh, well, you say it is you. So I kind of believe it’s you too.

Chris: No, absolutely.

Lindsey: All right, what’s next?

Chris: What’s next in terms of?

Lindsey: Like what are you committed to doing?

Chris: Well, when we have our kickoff call I’ll restate the walls of the container, if you will. I’ll restate the best policies to get a hold of me; when, where, how. None of it in an announcement like, hey, I know you’re used to one thing, I’m going to do something else. But instead, just the same way that you would kick off any beginning of a program, here’s the best way that it operates. But this time, follow through with enforcing those boundaries that I set in the beginning, instead of doing all the little extras and then not being –

Here’s the most important part of what I’m saying, I think, is not being attached to any outcome in terms of what if they don’t like it? What if they don’t renew next year? I just kind of have to go to I don’t give a fuck land and then see what happens.

Lindsey: Yeah, because I think what else you do, it’s like trying to be someone else for the wrong person you’re dating. You’re like, yeah, but then I have to pretend to be someone the whole time. That’s exhausting, right?

Chris: Yeah, so they stick around. Exactly.

Lindsey: Yeah, and then you’re going to have a room where you just feel that deep sense of trust. And here’s the other thing. Let me ask you this, who gets the best results in your room? People who walk into a room and say, I’m going to get results no matter what? Or the people who are like, it’s Chris’s job to get me results?

Chris: Of course the first group, right? The ones that are like, all right, no one’s doing the work for me. I got to do the work and get out of this as much as I can.

You just said something really important too that helps to reinforce my vision on this is when people sign up and send that wire, nobody expects the program or my availability to be more than what I told them it was, right? We had a conversation. There is a page that tells you what you get, et cetera, et cetera. So nobody sends that wire saying, oh, good, here’s what it says I’m going to get, but I also expect I’m going to get X, Y and Z.

I think I just either set that precedent on accident or once in a while they ask and me saying yes, then all of a sudden it opens up those floodgates. So I’ve been fulfilling what I think is an expectation that is not an expectation because when they send that wire, they’re sending it for what the sales page says they get, not hoping that there’s all this extra that somehow wasn’t described.

Lindsey: Yes.

Chris: So that helps to reinforce like, yep, it’s okay to move forward and only do what the program says. And that takes a lot off too, right? So that I can enjoy the program, not resent it.

Lindsey: Totally. And if somebody signs up and they want it – honestly, it’s like you’re like, okay, then this isn’t the room for you. Love you. Send you on your way. That’s not how we operate here.

Chris: Yep, exactly. That’s the wrong person that picked the wrong room.

Lindsey: Yes.

Chris: I like that because that’s going to happen once in a while. You can’t put a room of 30 people together and expect every person to be the perfect fit, as hard as you try.

Lindsey: Yes. Something that really impacted me, I forget who said it, but they said you have to be willing to have like, I mean it’s not uncommon, but like the two or three, or 10 people depending on how big your program is, who are going to not be happy about it in order to be the person that has it as big as it needs to be. Like you’re not going to impact the thousands of people if you’re afraid of the 10.

Chris: Yeah. Oh, that’s a super valid point, for sure. You can’t get outside in that second, third, fourth ring of audience and not have a – You’re not for everybody. It’s impossible for you to be for everybody, right?

Lindsey: Yeah. I’m excited for you.

Chris: Yeah, me too. It feels like permission. It feels like permission to get back to upholding the walls of what the container was meant to be. And it feels very valid. It feels very valid, after we’ve kind of worked through it to say, no, people don’t expect you to do more. That’s just your own slippery slope that you created. People know what they sent the wire for. So it’s clear. I’ve made my own bed, but it’s an easy one to fix.

Lindsey: Yes. And I think at the end of the day it’s going to be, I mean, it’s going to be uncomfortable. You’ve been doing this for however long. And I love it. I mean, you have a bleeding heart. I think that’s like part of you. And at the same time, you still get to have a bleeding heart and have boundaries.

And I think the biggest thing is you’re going to have to keep selling yourself on how it’s even the best thing for them, for you to say no.

Chris: Yeah, especially for the sustainability of the program long-term.

Lindsey: Yeah, but even for their growth. Again, I think it’s just to keep reiterating that, and there are many Lindsey Mangos out in the world, but I’m like one of the best things that ever happened is when I ask for something and someone says no or I want an opportunity – And I know you’re like this too. And I go, okay, how do I create that with or without them?

Chris: It’s helping them build the muscles that they paid you to build in the first place.

Lindsey: Exactly.

Chris: Yeah. I love that. I’ll just keep using you as my muse then. I’ll just be like Lindsey said it’s her responsibility to get 10X out of the room. Lindsey said it’s her responsibility to have to build [inaudible]. Every time I’m ready to violate a boundary, I’m just going to be like, no.

Lindsey: It’s Lindsey’s fault, go check out this episode.

Chris: Yep, I’ll just put together a little bunch of clips of you saying that and I’ll keep playing it every time I’m about to violate some boundary.

Lindsey: Perfect. And if they don’t like it I’ll be like, great, you can come learn responsibility in my program.

Chris: Oh, I’ll just do a text intro. Hey, listen, I know that you hate that I’m not available, but please meet my friend Lindsey. She said to go fuck off.

Lindsey: I mean, I’ll take it. That’s fine. You can totally put it on me. Well, thank you so much, Chris. I’m so grateful. I know this is going to help so many people. And I’m really excited to see what this changes for you this year.

Chris: No, I will for sure keep you posted on that. Am I keeping up the boundaries or not? And it’s needed. In a year where I’m bringing a giant project to life I need the extra energy. I need the extra space. And that’s only going to come from having an absolute definitive decision around these are the boundaries, this is the container and everything else needs to be dedicated elsewhere.

So it’s kind of a make or break year where the timing of it is perfect for me to sit and have this conversation with you. So I really appreciate that.

Lindsey: Yeah, absolutely. So good. Well, thank you so much and how can people come find you?

Chris: Chris W. Harder on Instagram or tune into The Chris Harder Show.

Lindsey: Awesome. Well, thank you so much and I can’t wait to hear updates throughout the year. I’ll talk to you soon.

Chris: Appreciate you having me on.

Lindsey: Awesome. Bye.

If you want to call in to The Life Coach Hotline, go to https://lindseymango coaching.com/lifecoachhotline. Talk to you soon. Bye.

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